1983 Nighthawk 550 (CB550SC) Gas Leak

[Laminar]

That seems like a great product, I just didn't know if it was harsh enough to use on a 27 year old engine...  I did end up buying some today from autozone.  I'll probably throw it in tomorrow before riding (seems like it takes 10-15 minutes to clear stuff out and I won't ride anymore tonight).  According to their (the company's) youtube video and the bottle, it seems like you can pour it in most every part of your bike.  Do you suggest I add some to the oil too?  Or just the fuel?

While it may be beneficial, I personally stray away from adding anything to motorcycle oil that's not oil, simply because I don't want to mess up the wet clutch.

And for the capped hose, I'll open it tomorrow.  I can't seem to find it in Clymer's, but do I need any tools?  Is it a screw cap?  Or should I just be opening a clip or something?

At worst, you'll need a pair of pliers. If I recall correctly, there's a metal clip on the outside of the hose and the plug is plastic. It either screws out or just pulls out. Just be sure you have a pan underneath to catch whatever comes out.

Finally, I need your all's advice on finding parts for the bike...  Besides going to a dealership and having them order them (at great profit) I was wondering if you know any online/regional bike parts stores.  I'm looking for something along the lines of an Autozone.  However, some things on my bike need replaced like mirrors, kickstand rubber, and one of the chrome caps that go on the sides of the frame near the foot pegs.  If you have any thoughts, please post them.

Thanks for the excellent advice,
Zac

http://www.bikebandit.com/

http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/

http://www.babbittsonline.com/pages/catalogs/catalogs.aspx

Local dealerships are hit-or-miss. Some parts can be had for nearly the same prices as online, so it would make sense to buy locally and have the part now instead of waiting. Some dealerships are more friendly to old bike owners.

[Zaxeiler]

Laminar, thanks for those sites, and thanks to all for the seafoam suggestion/information.  I put it in my bike today and let her run for a bit.  Got some good white smoke out like shown in some of their videos.  The bike does seem to have some better throttle response now, it's not clear yet whether idling has been enhanced but it's certainly not worse.  And I didn't add any to the oil after all.

Laminar, I did end up using the parts site from the UK to buy some frame caps and kickstand rubber.  I'll probably check all of them for good mirrors too.

However, my next project is the tires.  I guess after the rain yesterday, or with closer observation, I have noticed there is some dry rot on my rear tire.  Oddly enough it's only on the left side (which may help to explain why I didn't notice it sooner).  Either way, I was wondering now if you knew anything that could be used on tire side walls to help rejuvenate them and extend the life slightly...  In the meantime, I'll be looking for tires (I suppose through the dealer) and trying to make myself experienced enough to remove the rims (since these shops don't work on bikes 10 years or older).

Happy monday,
Zac

[Laminar]

I'm not sure there's anything that can be done to reduce dry rot once it's started. As far as tires go, when I bought mine I found a set of Shinko tires meant for a Sportster on eBay for about $125 shipped. The Sportster and Nighthawk share tires sizes (100/90-19 front and 130-90-16 in the rear).

No complaints on grip or performance. I've put about 4-5000 miles on them so far and they do appear to be "squaring" a little since I ride more highways than curves.

[Zaxeiler]

I appreciate the tire recommendation.  Really, it's not like there aren't enough good deals on tires out there, I'm just trying to see if I can stretch these out a little bit because I don't know yet if I have the skill to remove the front/rear rims to take them to a dealership and have the tires switched out (balanced).  Mainly because I only just completed my first work on the bike in that petcock repair, and while it wasn't difficult, I do assume removing rims (especially the rear with the drivetrain) will be.

Zac

[Laminar]

I appreciate the tire recommendation.  Really, it's not like there aren't enough good deals on tires out there, I'm just trying to see if I can stretch these out a little bit because I don't know yet if I have the skill to remove the front/rear rims to take them to a dealership and have the tires switched out (balanced).  Mainly because I only just completed my first work on the bike in that petcock repair, and while it wasn't difficult, I do assume removing rims (especially the rear with the drivetrain) will be.

Zac

The Clymer's manual lays it out pretty well, but the rear tire can be tricky. I pulled both shocks off to get maximum flexibility of the swing arm. It would be advantageous to pull off the arm that links the brake drum to the frame.

It might be a good idea to invest in a torque wrench (they can be had at home improvement stores or Harbor Freight for under $25). Playing with carbs is fun but when I'm securing components that could fly off and cause my death, I want to make sure it's spot on.

[chromy]

Zac,
  Please do not ride your NH with dry rotted tires.     MC's are dangerous enough without riding on tires that could blow a side wall with no warning.  We'd like to enjoy your company a while longer.     I just pulled the back tire off my MC this weekend and it took less than 15 minutes.  There's plenty of folks on this forum that will walk you through the process.  Probably rates a dificulty rating of 3 on a scale of 10 (10 being most dificult).
Best regards,
Eric

[Zaxeiler]

Laminar, I'll definitely pick one of those up.  Do you happen to know the range that I would need it to cover for most/all motorcycle repairs that I would do for the tires, and in the future?

And Chromy, I truly appreciate the concern.  I'll be taking care of them ASAP.  I'll probably order some tires this week, and install them over the weekend.  Although, honestly, I imagine you're making the job sound a little easy.  It'll probably take me a good while to remove both tires, I just can't see it as a 30 minute job, I mean, it took 10-15 just to remove side panels, the seat, the tank, and the petcock.

If you all have any tips, or mistakes you made the first time you removed the tires, that would most definitely be helpful (one of those, "I'll be sure not to do that next time" sort of things).

And finally, I did just want to check that I'm going about this the most efficient way.  Since my bike is so old, removing the rims myself, and then taking them both (with the new tires) to a mechanic to have the tires switched out/balanced is the correct course of action right?

Zac

[Brittles]

Since my bike is so old, removing the rims myself, and then taking them both (with the new tires) to a mechanic to have the tires switched out/balanced is the correct course of action right?

That's what I do. However, you should check ahead of time to make sure the shop will do the work without purchasing the tires from them. Some of the shops around here won't install them if you don't purchase from them. Funny thing is the local Honda dealer is the only one that will.

[Zaxeiler]

Since my bike is so old, removing the rims myself, and then taking them both (with the new tires) to a mechanic to have the tires switched out/balanced is the correct course of action right?

That's what I do. However, you should check ahead of time to make sure the shop will do the work without purchasing the tires from them. Some of the shops around here won't install them if you don't purchase from them. Funny thing is the local Honda dealer is the only one that will.

Yeah, I just called my local Honda dealer and he will switch and balance the tires for $20 each.  So that's not too bad, haha, but he did tell me he refused to work on my bike in any other season but winter, so if I needed any other work from him, to get it done now.

I did just order these tires:
Shinko 230 Tour Master Motorcycle Tires for both my front and rear.  They seemed to be well made, have a good tread pattern, good price, and fit my rims to factory standards.

http://www.bikebandit.com/shinko-230-tour-master-motorcycle-tire

Zac

[OriginalHawk]

Hey Zax, good to see the bike is coming a long nicely.
As as for tires, I currently am running Dunlop 404's and they are just an all around great tire for lighter bikes such as ours. They wear a little bit faster on a heavier bike, but I think this is due to the soft and sticky rubber compound.
I saw someone mention Shinko tires, I would stray away from those personally.
I hear they are cheap, but it comes with an expense. From what I've heard they are cheaply made Chinese tires that last A LONG time with the expense of grip.
If your purely a straightline rider they may be ok for you but me I love curves.

As for the wheel removal, first of all do you have a centerstand? That can make life much easier. Otherwise your going to need something sturdy to rest the entire bike on. I just went through the entire process and depending on how long it has been since last removal it can be tricky.
If your tires are pretty "fresh", as in little dry rot and generally OK condition then that may be a good sign that it hasn't been AGES since the wheels were last removed.

As for on my bike, it is an 82 with 21k miles on it, and it was clear it had been A LONG time since the hoops were off the bike.
Also, correct me if I am wrong but your bike is a shafty correct? If so I am really not sure what the rear wheel removal process is, aside from the basic.
 
One mistake I made and I am only a little ashamed to admit is I did not realize the rear axle "pounded" out. I removed the castle nut w/ cotter pin, and then proceeded to try and "unscrew" the other side when in reality all I needed was a mallet to drive it out. Ended up with a badly grooved axle, marred threads and totally broken castle nut. I was very lucky that I could salvage my axle, clean the threads up and snag a new castle nut. Please dont make that mistake.

Also, if your front axle/forks are like mine (again not sure on all specifics between model years) then another issue I foresee arising is the forks will literally start to try and spread as you unscrew the axle.
The axle on 82 650 Hawks is threaded on the end, and actually screws into the left side fork. Sounds simple enough but as you get to the last thread it is like the axle will not fully "release" from the very last thread. This does two things as you sit there and try to keep unscrewing it, mars your threads on your axle AND your forks. Be very careful with this. You may be lucky and your axle could simply drop out from the bottom as on the older CB's, but I'm thinking that is not the case.

Let me tell you what I did to try and remedy this. I do not really know which procedure worked best, I think they all worked together to let me get my axle out. Let me tell you, when I say this thing was stuck, it was STUCK. It took me a good two days to get it out.
Start by releasing your pinch bolt on the right side fork, this pretty much squishes the axle and keeps it from going anywhere. My hypothesis on the forks spreading is that this pinch bolt connection is actually so tight, the axle will not come out even with the pinch bolt removed. The axle is in a pinch, so to say.
To remedy this hit that side with a little WD-40, PB blaster, Fluid Film, KY, whatever lubricant you may have on hand.
Lightly tap with a rubber mallet as you turn a little bit. I even very carefully stuck a flathead in the slot to give the axle a little extra breathing room.
Another technique I used to give the forks a little more play was to loosen all fork bolts including the ones up at the triple tree.
Another technique I tried but really did not work for me was to get a ratcheting tie down and actually tie the forks together as low as possible. If done correctly  this technique could hold water and keep the forks from spreading apart.
Hopefully you will not encounter this problem and yours will come out effortlessly.
All of these techniques plus patience, and one more trick allowed the axle to come out.
Using a cheap phillips head and my 3rd arm, I pressed it to the tip of the axle through the fork, and gently tapped as I unscrewed the axle.
I call it the pound and twist method, and it for sure worked. You must be conscious of the threads and soft metal when doing this.
A lot of smart people here will tell you there is no need for force, but for me it was truly the only option.

Hey, sorry for the novel but I hope you can get somethin out of it.
If not I am sure someone will.
Ride on buddy. 

[JordanA]

My baby was leaking gas and it actually ate off my paint!  Grrr!!! 

I stripped it to bare metal, found the itty bitty pin hole leak, and jb welded that puppy up.  Repainted it red, and all is good (even though my lazy ass never wet sanded so it's still orange peely).

[Zaxeiler]

OriginalHawk,

I did end up going with the Shinkos.  Mainly because they were very reasonable as far as price and I read all 50 reviews written on them and apparently they stick better than other Shinko tires and hold well in the twisties...  Either way, as a new rider, I do hold fairly straight and haven't gained enough experience to go through too many curves.  But they're a cheap replacement, both tires were $100 combined, and when I'm ready, I'll just buy a new pair and move up.

My bike does have a centerstand which will make life much easier.  However, I don't live at home currently, I'm at college so I don't have a "garage" setting to complete work in over time.  The tires look like they're in pretty good shape, the tread isn't too far along (probably half, or 1/3 life remaining) and there's no dry rot on the front tire, but the rear tire is showing mild-moderate dry rot.  So, hopefully it hasn't been too long since they've come off.  I need it to be an easy job because without the garage, any work I start, will really need to be finished that day so I don't have a bare/disassembled bike sitting out and parts sitting in my room.

My bike is shaft and not chain, which is mainly why I was originally intimidated by the process for the removal of the rear rim.  I know Clymer does a good job explaining things, but this just seems like it will be a complicated process...

Ha, your honesty with your mistake is the exact thing I'm looking for on this forum.  I'll be sure to grab a rubber mallet when I pick up a torque wrench.  Thank you for the insight.

As far as the axle forks, I'm not too sure if they'll spread like yours or not...  However, I'll try and take all precautions, and a combination of the methods you used to save some time, I certainly don't want the work to spread several days to a week, I'd like to do it all in one day.

Don't worry about writing a lot, I'm reading every word from everyone (the advice is worth its weight in gold).  The tips have all been extremely helpful.  I know Chromy said the process took him about 15 minutes and rated as a 3 on a 10 point scale of difficulty.  However, do you all with more experience than myself view this as accurate?  In my mind I'm imagining a few hours and a difficulty of 6-7 (I'm sure jobs that require engine work or wiring take up the 9-10 spots).  Either way, I just want a realistic picture of how difficult this could be before I get my hands dirty.

All the best,
Zac

[Brittles]

The tires look like they're in pretty good shape, the tread isn't too far along (probably half, or 1/3 life remaining) and there's no dry rot on the front tire, but the rear tire is showing mild-moderate dry rot.  So, hopefully it hasn't been too long since they've come off. 

Your tires should have a "born on" date stamped on the sidewall. Look for a "DOT" stamp and the numbers next to it will tell you the month and year they were produced. For example 5098 would be the 50th week of 1998.

[OriginalHawk]

OriginalHawk,

I did end up going with the Shinkos.  Mainly because they were very reasonable as far as price and I read all 50 reviews written on them and apparently they stick better than other Shinko tires and hold well in the twisties...  Either way, as a new rider, I do hold fairly straight and haven't gained enough experience to go through too many curves.  But they're a cheap replacement, both tires were $100 combined, and when I'm ready, I'll just buy a new pair and move up.

My bike does have a centerstand which will make life much easier.  However, I don't live at home currently, I'm at college so I don't have a "garage" setting to complete work in over time.  The tires look like they're in pretty good shape, the tread isn't too far along (probably half, or 1/3 life remaining) and there's no dry rot on the front tire, but the rear tire is showing mild-moderate dry rot.  So, hopefully it hasn't been too long since they've come off.  I need it to be an easy job because without the garage, any work I start, will really need to be finished that day so I don't have a bare/disassembled bike sitting out and parts sitting in my room.

My bike is shaft and not chain, which is mainly why I was originally intimidated by the process for the removal of the rear rim.  I know Clymer does a good job explaining things, but this just seems like it will be a complicated process...

Ha, your honesty with your mistake is the exact thing I'm looking for on this forum.  I'll be sure to grab a rubber mallet when I pick up a torque wrench.  Thank you for the insight.

As far as the axle forks, I'm not too sure if they'll spread like yours or not...  However, I'll try and take all precautions, and a combination of the methods you used to save some time, I certainly don't want the work to spread several days to a week, I'd like to do it all in one day.

Don't worry about writing a lot, I'm reading every word from everyone (the advice is worth its weight in gold).  The tips have all been extremely helpful.  I know Chromy said the process took him about 15 minutes and rated as a 3 on a 10 point scale of difficulty.  However, do you all with more experience than myself view this as accurate?  In my mind I'm imagining a few hours and a difficulty of 6-7 (I'm sure jobs that require engine work or wiring take up the 9-10 spots).  Either way, I just want a realistic picture of how difficult this could be before I get my hands dirty.

All the best,
Zac

Your also going to need a small scissor jack or some sort, or preferably a small floor jack so you can get the front in the air far enough to remove. Some people also like to use blocks of wood.
As far as it being a 1 day process, it is very possible if everything goes as planned. Be sure your tire shop is up to the 1 day turn around as well. When I had my bearings put in and my new tires put on turn around was several days, but this was due to holidays and my bad schedule.
Be sure to check your wheel bearings for excessive play, and visually check the grease to see if it looks burned or how fresh it is. Wheel bearings are cheap and any good shop can put them on the wheels.
Your front wheel should not be a problem, unless you run into the snag I did. That was honestly a pain in the butt. If that does happen you will probably need another person just for the extra set of hands, and when it comes to using that rubber mallet.
By the way, do not skimp on the torque wrench. I've heard of cheap ones from Autozone being off A LOT.
Have you visually checked to see if your front axle unscrews or if it drops out from the bottom?
I'm guessing it probably unscrews.  If so front tire should be as simple as removing pinch bolt, disconnecting speedodrive, and unscrewing the front axle. Also sometimes wise to remove the calipers and suspend them with something, but I'm not sure if its a must to do.
Someone that knows shaft drives a little better can probably chime in on rear wheel procedure, but if its anything like mine there is going to be a multitude of spacers and collars.
On my bike these things could go in a multitude of spots on the rear axle, but each one only had one correct location.
Take very very good notes of parts and the order they go in when removing both wheels.
This probably won't be a problem if disassembly and reassembly are both done in the same day.
For me those two dates were spread out about a week, so my memory had sense departed.
Pictures WOULD NOT hurt, and infact I would encourage them.
By the way, be sure to tie a rope, chain, dog leash, something tough from the centerstand to the front forks or the engine gaurd so that the center stand cannot retract. A forward push from the rear wheel when putting it back on is nearly enough to send the bike careening forward off the centerstand.
It wasn't a big deal for me but I did take that precaution, and everything worked out OK in the end.

[skramer360]

Shafties are WAY easier to remove the rear wheel. I had never removed one before and it took literally 10 minuets. Brake arm (one bolt), brake stay (one bolt), axle (one big bolt), and it comes right off.

[chromy]

Gotta love shaft drives for ease of R&R of rear wheel!   
Good luck, you'll do fine and we are here if you run into an issue.

[Zaxeiler]

Sorry for the long response time, the weather had gotten much colder again around here and I hadn't done any work on the bike in awhile, and then there were some more interesting complications so let me try and explain.

As for the "born on" date, I have noticed those numbers on other tires in the past, however, they don't jump right out at me on the tires on my bike currently.  However, those tires are pretty dirty, so it would probably become apparent with a good wash.

I hope the process will be quick once the weather is nice again.  I will definitely check the bearings, thank you for the tip.  My front axle has to unscrew, so it's similar to yours I suppose.  And I haven't purchased a torque wrench yet, only because I went looking at Home Depot and they were $80.  So, I know you said not to buy a cheap one, I'm just not ready for $80 yet.  I'll look around.

As far as the removal of the rear wheel goes, I studied my Clymer through and through recently.  It does appear that both wheels will be very easy.  The front removal process is only 6 steps.  The rear removal process is 10 steps, with the last step being to remove the wheel carefully (so it's really only 9)...

As far as other recent happenings.  My bike was recently crashed.  I have a good friend who has his permit and is looking to buy a nighthawk.  He gave my bike a good ride in a very large empty parking lot on Friday night.  Saturday morning we went to check on an old 650 lead.  It looked to be stolen and he was pretty disappointed, so I told him he could ride again in the parking lot.  However, he's still fairly inexperienced, so he wasn't ready to compensate for any slight issues.  He downshifted a little too soon, the bike lurched a little, and he dumped it at about 15 mph onto a curb.  So now, 3 fins on the engine casing are broken off and jagged, and the bike seems to be suffering some throttle issues (not so much in the cable, but more like the engine itself, maybe carb, maybe cylinder/valve timing).  Anyway, I go to throttle up when I'm riding it and (especially once out of 1st gear) if I give some gas it starts to rise in RPM as usual, but then suddenly drops like it's going to stall/has been flooded, and then will slowly rise up in RPMs to where it should be (but much too slow for the amount of throttle I'm giving).

So, the tires have been the least of my concerns, I'm trying to get the bike looked at to see what's wrong.  At the very least, it seems like to buy a new engine casing is like $700 OEM.  So for a cosmetic repair, I may just deal with it, the bike was only around $1000.  But I do want to know what's wrong with the engine.

Always appreciating the help,
Zac

[Laminar]

So, the tires have been the least of my concerns, I'm trying to get the bike looked at to see what's wrong.  At the very least, it seems like to buy a new engine casing is like $700 OEM.  So for a cosmetic repair, I may just deal with it, the bike was only around $1000.  But I do want to know what's wrong with the engine.

Always appreciating the help,
Zac

Does it happen at the same RPM every time? It could be an electrical issue.

[Zaxeiler]

Well, it's hard to say.  Mainly because I don't notice it in 1st gear (I don't know if that's telling of anything or not).  However, I just rode it into work (I'm taking it to a mechanic after I get off) and this is what I noticed.  Any gear 2nd or higher (I only got into 4th in the stop and go traffic) and there is throttle delay.  If I throttle up the bike starts to move forward normally for a split second and then has a jerk and hesitation of the engine as if I had suddenly pushed the throttle forward and stopped giving any gas.  It stays in this hesitation for a second or two, regardless of how much the throttle is turned, and then the engine kicks in and gradually rises in RPM to where it should have been from the start.

I don't know if that gives any clues whatsoever, but that's what I notice (note: I'm still only about a 2 week rider, ha, so not much experience at all).

Zac

[Zaxeiler]

Also, something I forgot to add...  When in neutral, the bike shows no indication of hesitation/delay.  It revs normally and you would know nothing about a problem (this is what leads me to believe it isn't a simple throttle cable problem, and more of an engine/carb deal).

Zac

[Laminar]

How quickly are you applying throttle? It sounds like what happens when I nail the throttle open on some non-CV carbs, or what happens on the Nighthawk when it's really cold out. Does having the choke on make a difference? Does it happen after you've been riding for 20 minutes or so?

[OriginalHawk]

May sound dumb, but since the bike has just been dropped I would check to see that all spark plugs boots are on correctly. Start with the easy stuff first.
Hopefully your friend can pony up a little cash to help you out.

[Zaxeiler]

He's a good friend and has taken full responsibility and is paying for everything (although I'll probably chip in and split stuff with him since it was me allowing him to ride).  However, before the mechanic today we had a friend mechanic take a look at it because originally it wouldn't start.  She inspected the bike (not internally, but for most components) and said the bike looked ok, and she had checked the spark plugs and said they were seated well and in great condition.  So it's not that, unless she's just a horrible mechanic, but I guess I'll know more this afternoon or tomorrow.

Zac

[Zaxeiler]

So took her to a mechanic yesterday evening.  He gave her a ride around the parking lot and noted the engine hesitation and drop in RPMs.  Much more observant than I, he noted that it was around 3000 RPM and that it was most likely a carb issue rather than an engine issue.  So, all in all, he wants to do a carb rebuild and it's fairly expensive work but he gave us a great deal.  The bike will get a pretty good tune up out of it by the end and should be as good as new in around a week (minus the 3 engine fins that were broken off).  Cosmetically I guess I'll just have to deal with that scar, I guess it'll make a good story.

On a brighter note, the roommate of mine that did this to the bike got enough of a taste while riding and now is online digging and searching for a Honda of his own.  I think right now he has his eye on a Magna, but only because he hasn't spotted a good NH yet.  So, even after the little dump he had, his interest is higher than ever.

Zac

[kcrush]

Hi everybody,


I'm Zac's good friend that dumped his bike. The bike is out of the shop with it's carb-rebuild and is running great! Also this week I bought my very own 1985 Honda Nighthawk 650! So it looks like more good than bad, and I'm very excited that I now own my own NH. Thanks for helping Zac with his NH. Its good to know that there are good knowledgeable people that I can turn to if I ever have a problem with my bike.