Went ATGATT

[goshawk]

...went from denim clothing and black 3/4 helmet to fabric armored jacket/pants and a white full face helmet.......best summed up by "about time". I'm a bit old, a bit large,  , and anti-poser by nature and so had resisted this move......well I found stuff that fits that I could afford, and it feels great. That white helmet is really visible- I can see the difference it make to cage traffic. BTW the insulated gear and FF helmet has really extended my riding season... got in four 25 mile jaunts between storms this last week or so- rides in cold and wind I would never have taken before ATGATT.

2003 NH 750 with new sneakers and recent windscreen 
 

[DesignFlaw06]

I'm curious how ATGATT makes you a poser? Especially when safety is concerned.

But glad you "wised-up"  Hope you never have to use it.

[JB1290]

Im with you there. When I was in my early 20's, I rode with a helmet and a flimsy leather jacket at best. Then, I went quite a few years without a bike when my kids were born. Now, I just bought a nice Joe Rocket armored jacket for me, a Technic for my wife and gloves for both of us. I have an old helmet in the garage that hasn't seen action for  a long time and is probably done for since the technology in helmets have improved so much over the years so, I've spent the last week or so shopping for new helmets for us. I've found some really great deals out there. Its just a matter of picking the ones we want and placing the order. I never thought I would start seeing the ATGATT point of view but, since I crashed hard a few years ago and am now in the physical shape to ride alot more often, I can't see NOT protecting myself and my wife when we ride. Not doing it would just be a disservice to our family and friends.  Ride safe, everyone. 

[Bumblebee]

Excellent. I hope you wasted every penny you spent on the gear. (think about it)

I started with helmet and gloves because I was too stupid to know better. Then after watching the pavement under the wheels for too many miles, I decided I was a panzy and that would hurt too much so I went ATGATT over a year time period when I wasn't riding much.

Based on first hand experience from an ATGATT faceplant 3.5 years ago, there is no such thing as too much armor when the Earth gets involved. There's nothing quite like getting up from a fatal (or worse) crash, riding home and starting repairs with nothing more than a minor pinched nerve and a very minor headache.

[Custom82Hawk]

leather is your friend.  i still wear my deer jacket every day (named such as what it saved me from) even though it has scratches.  it may be like a child with a security blanket kinda thing, but then again, it did save my skin, quite literally.

[Brumbie13]

I believe that if you're gonna do something, you oughta do it right.
When I budgeted for a bike, I budgeted in gear as well.

The week after I had the bike, I bought a real motorcycle jacket and gloves.
I didn't find any riding pants I liked, but a recommendation I found on here lead me to some riding pants.

I had bought some work boots and a 3/4 helmet when I took the MSF class a while back, but I knew I needed better boots.

I thought my helmet was ok until I went on my first real trip, I was seriously scared that if I went down going freeway speeds, that helmet would do nothing to protect my head. I couldn't wait one more day and I bought myself a better helmet right ASAP.

Overall,I mostly ride around town, I enjoy riding around town. But I feel so uncomfortable if I don't have my gear on.

When I go down, I'll know that I did my best to protect myself.

[happycommuter]

...has really extended my riding season... got in four 25 mile jaunts between storms ...rides in cold and wind I would never have taken before ATGATT.

... I was seriously scared that if I went down going freeway speeds...I feel so uncomfortable if I don't have my gear on.

These are the two benefits I found when upgrading from Marlon Brando jeans & black leater jacket to my Roadcrafter.  Weather becomes so much more manageable when not wearing a sponge.  Feeling the cold through worn jean knees was eerie in a few ways, the second being the reminder of the fabric thinness.
Going through any sweeper I'd be thinking 'gee knee is a little close to the ground here...maybe slow down, get bike more upright."  ATGATT solved this worry with the peace of mind that there was protection and carnage was no longer inevitable with any mishap.

[FocusPlayer]

I've found buying stuff with armor makes people think, " huh, maybe he doesn't want to kill himself after all."

Lids:  As I understand it, The Snell family lost a kid to the pavement .... look for their family name in your head protection.

[LOKi]

ATGATT I'm wondering does that include ear plugs? While the rest of that gear MIGHT help one day (hopefully useless as BB suggest) but the ear plugs help every time your on the bike. The noise level from wind is well into the damaging range and continued exposure WILL affect your hearing. Also your less fatigued at the end of the ride without the added stress of a jet engine in your ear for hours at a time.

[JB1290]

I've found buying stuff with armor makes people think, " huh, maybe he doesn't want to kill himself after all."

Lids:  As I understand it, The Snell family lost a kid to the pavement .... look for their family name in your head protection.

Just out of curiosity, are Snell rated helemts supposed to be better than DOT rated lids? Just wondering.

[FocusPlayer]

YES.. Snell is above and beyond just DOT.   All Snell have already passed D.O.T.   

[JordanA]

I've found buying stuff with armor makes people think, " huh, maybe he doesn't want to kill himself after all."

Lids:  As I understand it, The Snell family lost a kid to the pavement .... look for their family name in your head protection.

Just out of curiosity, are Snell rated helemts supposed to be better than DOT rated lids? Just wondering.

That is a huge debate and a nasty can of worms I don't think we should go into all that deeply.  You cannot get a solid answer on that one, but if something is both DOT and Snell approved, why not?  It can't mean it's less safe, right?

[FocusPlayer]

debate?? err, ok, .

um - Earplugs.   very good idea.  I buy them in packs of 500 from Dillion Precision reloading.

[lew750]

...went from denim clothing and black 3/4 helmet to fabric armored jacket/pants and a white full face helmet.......best summed up by "about time". I'm a bit old, a bit large,  , and anti-poser by nature and so had resisted this move......well I found stuff that fits that I could afford, and it feels great. That white helmet is really visible- I can see the difference it make to cage traffic. BTW the insulated gear and FF helmet has really extended my riding season... got in four 25 mile jaunts between storms this last week or so- rides in cold and wind I would never have taken before ATGATT.

2003 NH 750 with new sneakers and recent windscreen 
 

I'm a firm believer in ATGATT.  A couple of years ago I went down on a gravel road.  I was on my Nighthawk trying to keep up with a couple of BMW GSs and slid out.  I only had slight bruising that I didn't notice until the next day.  Glad I had on armor!

[Bumblebee]

ATGATT I'm wondering does that include ear plugs?

Earplugs are mandatory here in high noise environments.

Some people think a helmet is adequate hearing protection. Maybe so however I have yet to put on a motorcycle helmet that cuts the ambient noise down much if at all. It definitely doesn't cut it down like earplugs do and I've tried on almost every FF that I've seen on the shelves.
In my real world experience, the difference between earplugs and no earplus is about triple the time to reach the same exhaustion level. I even wear them in my cage and wagon when going any distance.

At this point I'm convinced earplugs are a good thing. The only disadvantage is that in today's society, excessively loud background noise is normal and without earplugs you reach audible overload before anyone else does which means added noise at that point is basically indecipherable. That's ok by me though. I can hear snow hitting the roof of my motorhome at night while other people just hear a loud eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee all the time.

[LOKi]

My headphones (noise canceling) where broken and I took a long ride with just ear plugs this past weekend. While they cut down on the noise I found that my ears where still ringing from the constant pitch of the wind. Not so loud that it hurt or anything but that night all I could hear was that eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. I found that the noise canceling headphones + music helps. You don't need it loud at all but it gives your brain something besides that wind turbulence to listen too. So if ear plugs alone "triple the time to reach the same exhaustion level" bubble that if those ear plugs pipe in some music.

I don't know, maybe the little bones in your ear get fatigued from the same constant pitch regardless of how loud it is. Providing the full range of sound via music or even auto books (long tips) would move all those little bones and not fatigue one part of the hearing. Just a theory though.

I do know that my fatigue level after 200 miles this weekend with just ear plugs was grater than 750 miles with headphones.

[Bumblebee]

I don't know, maybe the little bones in your ear get fatigued from the same constant pitch regardless of how loud it is. Providing the full range of sound via music or even auto books (long tips) would move all those little bones and not fatigue one part of the hearing. Just a theory though.

My theory (right or wrong) is that the brain does the processing on everything it receives. The less it has to process, the longer it will operate before reaching exhaustion. Of course it's all software which can modify the rules a bit. In today's world people are for the most part constantly bombarded by noise and stimulus input to the point that the noise and constant activity is normal. If you remove normal from someone's environment, they get stressed about what's going on around them simply because it is abnormal. Try putting a very social city person in the forest by themselves for 24 hours sometime and they'll stress out due to the environmental change even though they are perfectly safe and at no risk at all.
If one is programmed for constant stimulation (sound), one will need at least some sound to keep the stress level down and endurance up.

Another potential contribution to exhaustion rates is the level of distraction and attention span. Some people can actively do things for long periods without a problem or exhaustion. Others with shorter attention spans need a distraction from their environment so they can ignore the boredom that sets in and wears them out.

It's all psychology and programming with lots of variables.

[JB1290]

I've found buying stuff with armor makes people think, " huh, maybe he doesn't want to kill himself after all."

Lids:  As I understand it, The Snell family lost a kid to the pavement .... look for their family name in your head protection.

Just out of curiosity, are Snell rated helemts supposed to be better than DOT rated lids? Just wondering.

That is a huge debate and a nasty can of worms I don't think we should go into all that deeply.  You cannot get a solid answer on that one, but if something is both DOT and Snell approved, why not?  It can't mean it's less safe, right?

Don't want to open a can of worms. Since I've been shopping around for lids, I've seen some that were just DOT and some that were both DOT and Snell approved. The couple that I am currently deciding if I'm going to buy are only DOT. If the Snell approved helmets are better, I might start looking around again. Just trying to get the best equipment for my money.
Thanks for the info.

[LOKi]

If your looking at modular helmets then your not going to find any that are SNELL. SNELL is the standard used for racing. Some say the SNELL helmets are designed for such high impact that they might actually do more damage than a regular DOT helmet in your average crash. The impact force of going 70 or 80 and slamming your head to the ground isn't nearly as great as 150 - 180. The SNELL is designed for the higher range. If all things are equal I would get the SNELL but I wouldn't give up the convenience of my modular for the extra protection.

It's like textile VS. leather. Sure leather is better but that's not to say textile is crap.  But one they will let you on the track with and one they wont.

[Burgi]

I've read that the concern is that Snell helmets aren't as soft and could give us old folks to much of a brain jolt. When your younger your brain can absorb the shock better.
I'd like to be able to tie that to accumulated wisdom somehow but I'm to old and slow to come up with the answer. 

[Bumblebee]

The best helmet is the one that fits properly. Start there.


This is strictly my opinion however:

The harder snell is my second choice. My reasoning is that all else being equal, the harder impact foam for the higher impact forces delivers more energy to what it's protecting. A softer more energy distributing helmet will deliver lower impulse g forces thus less damage as long as the foam doesn't compress fully.
That said, I ended up with a snell helmet because it fits far better than the non snell helmets. The problem is if your head slams against the inside of the padding of the lower g transmitting helmet instead of decelerating with the helmet, the g forces are higher. The looser the fit, the higher the impulse is going to be. (Think of it as decelerating with a crashing cage wearing a seatbelt vs decelerating against the instrument panel without restraint)

Don't forget that in a crash, the impact protection is only the first part of a crash scenario. It's most likely going to be one high g impulse possibly followed by a few other moderate to low g hits. After that, it's almost all abrasion. You want to be completely inside the helmet, not outside where the runaway 4-grit belt sander is doing it's thing. That's why IMNSHO, open face helmets are essentially useless. Personally I like the full face over modular since a full face has the cheek padding to help keep your nose off the inside of the chinbar.

[Messorius]

If your looking at modular helmets then your not going to find any that are SNELL. SNELL is the standard used for racing. Some say the SNELL helmets are designed for such high impact that they might actually do more damage than a regular DOT helmet in your average crash. The impact force of going 70 or 80 and slamming your head to the ground isn't nearly as great as 150 - 180. The SNELL is designed for the higher range. If all things are equal I would get the SNELL but I wouldn't give up the convenience of my modular for the extra protection.

It's like textile VS. leather. Sure leather is better but that's not to say textile is crap.  But one they will let you on the track with and one they wont.

Zeus came out with modulars that have gotten Snell approval in 2009, although they're hen's teeth to find, and only in XS-M, but they are out there now.  Now if only they get up to XL   http://www.webbikeworld.com/r2/zeus-helmet/zeus-zs-3000/

[Brumbie13]

Zeus came out with modulars that have gotten Snell approval in 2009, although they're hen's teeth to find, and only in XS-M, but they are out there now.  Now if only they get up to XL    http://www.webbikeworld.com/r2/zeus-helmet/zeus-zs-3000/

That's an AWESOME helmet!

[goshawk]

When looking for my recent helmet I googled all I could. I could well be wrong but I understand the DOT vs SNELL argument to go like this (numbers I made up-for illustration only);

Company "S" makes a helmet to satisfy the high kinetic Snell impact(s). It passes 290 g's to the brain-below the 300 g threshold, and is awarded the Snell rating. This robust, hard helmet also passes the lower impact, broader threshold Dot test by passing 240 G's to the brain-less than the 250 g requirement

Helmet company "H" ignores the Snell criteria as they cite research that says such impacts are really quite rare - not the norm. They also site the logic that at Snell impact levels, you probably also punctured you pancreas, ripped your arm off, and ruptured your aorta-thus quite dead from non brain injuries. Their helmet, freed from snell design considerations and made "softer" and more compliant addresses the head impacts that represent 95% of m/c accidents. It is tested and passes 150 G's to the brain.......

Do you want your brain to experience 150 G's or 240 G's in the most probable scenarios?......

manufacturers need to publish actual #s for these tests.

ps I did see some #s from a lab that tested around twenty helmets....some of which are identified. one name brand Snell rated middle of the road helmet (I think I remember which, but don't want to name it and get it wrong!) passed on like 215 G's in the dot impact, and some 90 buck el'cheapo polycarbonate helment passed on 150 something G's....I forget details- a mind is a terrible thing to waste! 

[Messorius]

Zeus came out with modulars that have gotten Snell approval in 2009, although they're hen's teeth to find, and only in XS-M, but they are out there now.  Now if only they get up to XL    http://www.webbikeworld.com/r2/zeus-helmet/zeus-zs-3000/

That's an AWESOME helmet!

Isn't it just? They run from 139-172 depending on the graphics and model.  You have to do a little dance through email since their website is a rat's nest, but I've seen happy reviews on the KLR forum and a couple other places after getting them by courier.  I'll probably get one for next season, my Vega isn't even a year old and I want to get new tires this year.  I can PM you the email I got from them if you want.