Bike wont start Help

[83cb650]

I bought an 83 cb650 about a week ago i knew it didnt start but i only paid 325.00 for it so i knew there would be a few problems. The starter does not crank over when i hit the starter button, or the engine nothing happens, the button is good because when i would hit it the headlights would dim, also its not the starter because i had it tested also installed a new solenoid old one wouldnt shut off, and i charged the battery, my guess is that its the ignition coils. I did the test and did not have any type of spark from the spark plug, i tested the leads on the coils and they said they should very little continuity but the multimeter showed the exact opposite and showed it had to much, I just wanted some help in knowing if this is for sure the issue, so if it is the coils would the starter try and crank over if they were bad or would starter not be able to turn over if the coils were bad, also just put in new spark plugs- ngk gapped at .8, could it possibly be the spark unit i tested the connectors and they were good for the pulse generator i just figured it was the ignition coils since i did the spark plug test and got nothing. sorry for the long post and any help would be appreciated

[83cb650]

Follow up: I was working on the bike and whenever i would turn the key to on, i could hear a click coming from coil a single click, also i would turn the kill switch to off and then to run and would hear the click again. Should i be hearing two clicks? one from each coil? or is my spark unit bad?

[flynrider]

  If the engine is not turning over when you push the starter button, forget about the coils and ignition system.  You've got to get the engine to spin before they even come into play.

  Since the light dims and you still get no cranking from the starter, it would seem that something is keeping the engine from turning over.   If this bike has been sitting in the back of someone's garage for 10 yrs., it's entirely possible that the pistons are frozen in the cylinders.  If that were the case, the starter would not have enough power to turn over the engine and all you'd see is the headlight dimming.

  I'd recommend that you try and see if the engine is capable of turning over.  A push/bump start attempt will tell you if the engine will spin.   Put it in 3rd and (carefully) push it up to around 4-5 mph.  When you release the clutch, the back tire will either turn the engine over, or it willl skid to a stop.  If it does the latter, you've got some work ahead to try and free up the engine.

  Caveat : If you're not experienced with bump starting, it may be easier to sit on the bike and get a friend to push you up to speed.  Less chance of the bike falling over that way.  Alternatively, you could remove a side cover and try to turn the engine over using a wrench on the end of the crankshaft.

[flynavyj]

Another option would be to remove the sparkplugs and turn it over in fifth or sixth gear by hand using the rear wheel. With the plugs removed, you'll only be fighting the resistance of the engine/transmission's internals, but won't have compression so it should be fairly easy. But i agree that if you're not getting the starter to turn over than spark isn't your issue. The clicking noise is odd though, and i assume it's coming from under your tank, i don't think there are any other relays (from my brief experience with these bikes) that should "energize" like that when the ignition is turned on/off...After you get it spinning, you'll be able to figure out if it has ignition issues or not.

[coffee_brake]

+1, if you want to make this 650 run you might want to drop $30 on a clymer's manual for it, you'll need it one way or the other!

One more tip....before you make those pistons and rings move at all when the motor turns over, it would be a very good idea to remove the spark plugs and put in a teaspoonful of motor oil, or better yet Marvel Mystery Oil, but motor oil will do. This oil will get in around the rings where they are touching the cylinder walls and make that first movement much easier on the parts that are touching each other when they make friction.

I think the 650 has an odd access to the plugs. Better go buy some plugs (cheap) and take them to Sears and get a plug wrench and extension for them so you can get to the plugs at all. It needs to be a real sparkplug socket ($6 or so), not a regular socket, which is too thick to fit. Other 650 owners, please speak up if I'm right or wrong!

[ariwhiteboy]

+1 for oil on top of the cylinder!  It will save those rings if they have been sitting a while.

[JB1290]

You are correct, CB. You need an actual spark plug socket on the 650's.

[biometrics]

With spark plugs removed, and AFTER putting a couple teaspoons of oil in the cylinders, you should be able to walk the bike IN GEAR and feel and hear the pistons moving.  If you can't walk the bike in gear with the spark plugs removed, you will have a lot of work in front of you disassembling the engine to free the pistons and hone the cylinders--- then install new rings and reassemble.  GET THE MANUAL... you won't be able to live without one... and this forum!  

Where do you live?  Maybe there might be a forum member close by who can help out with the diagnosis.

[chas550sc]

In order to make sure nothing drops into the cyclinder, please be sure to blow out/clean away any kak or debris from around the plugs before you remove them and, as they are loosened, just before you remove them blow out the area again, then drop in the oil.

[83cb650]

Follow up 2- I took the spark plugs out and dropped some engine oil in the pistons, i also wanted to test to see if the engine was seized by putting the bike on its centerstand an rotating the back wheel and it rotated fine without any resistance so that was a sigh of relief. So i am still stuck on the sparks not getting spark, im am going to replace the wires cause there the originals, also if the problem still persist im gonna replace the coils. I will keep everyone updated on the progress, also if anyone has any more ideas they can think of i would really appreciate it, i know there are seasoned veterans lol who replied to my questions so i really appreciate any input.

[cmyers]

the starter should still spin the engine even if there is no spark at the plugs. If it is not turning over at all, you need to start with the starter and find the issue there.

[83cb650]

follow up 3- dun dun dun... nevermind my last post, i was an idiot and forgot the bike was in neutral duhhhhhh but yea i had it in 5th and the wheel would not turn so therefore i am assuming the engine is seized, i knew there were gonna be problems, but im gonna stick through them and figures this out heck maybe i can do a post about my engine teardown and put pictures of it and you guys could help me with questions i might have as i go along the way, now here is my finally question lol, is it cheaper to try and fixed this seized engine or would i be better off if i just went ahead and bought an engine that was running off of the same year nighthawk

[Munkey]

it rotated fine without any resistance

Was that with the transmission in gear? There should be SOME resistance. If it's in gear, you're turning transmission, clutch, crank and 4 pistons. I don't always trust this method of determining whether the engine is locked up or not. There's too many other factors that have to turn that could be causing the lockup (clutch, transmission, etc.)  

I would remove the cover on the left side of the crankshaft and try turning the engine by hand with a wrench. There should be an arrow there to tell you the direction of rotation.  

I agree with everyone else, whether it has spark or not has nothing to do with engine not turning over. Worry about that before worrying about spark. You can't test wires or coils until the engine spins. One issue at a time.

[chas550sc]

whatever happens with this project, you are going to learn some. While it certainly sounds like the engine is siezed, you shouldmAke sure you know that is the symptom. with all four plugs removed put a wrench on the crank bolt ans see if you can turn it (in neutral). If no, then you know that something is set up.

[Munkey]

now here is my finally question lol, is it cheaper to try and fixed this seized engine or would i be better off if i just went ahead and bought an engine that was running off of the same year nighthawk

That's a hard question to answer without more info. No idea how much you have invested at this point.

Kinda depends on how badly it's seized and what's causing it. If it's just a rusted cylinder, I've seen replacement cylinder and pistons fairly cheap on eBay. The cost of the replacement cylinder, pistons, new rings, and a gasket set and you'll be back in business. I consider this a better option than a used engine.

If the problem turns out to be deeper, like rods seized to the crank or something, then you'll probably be better off replacing the engine.

Unfortunately, you're not going to know the source of the problem until you start tearing it down.

For now, I'd fill the cylinders with Marvel Mystery Oil and let 'er sit for a few days and see if I got lucky and it turns loose.

And from now on, I'd turn the engine over using a wrench rather than trying the starter or turning the wheel with it in gear. You run the risk of breaking something else doing one of those methods  

[83cb650]

So i just called the dealership and they are gonna take a look at it for 80$ and give me an exact problem i figured this would be easier since i have never torn down an engine before and would have no idea what to look for. As far as investing goes all i put in was a new solenoid, new battery cables, and bought clutch still have to install though. So i will not be updating this until next thursday the bike goes in Wednesday, thanks for taking time to help, i will keep updating this though so please keep reading thank you

[drdubb]

I've got a 83 650 that wouldn't turn at first. Put some WD 40 in the spark plug holes, then the marvel oil. Took a couple of days of reapplying and tugging at the rear wheel. Put it in 6th or you can't turn it anyway.

Don't spend the jack yet.

Do buy a manual. It will walk you through the tests. Start at the plug wires and work back. Need a VOM.

[Munkey]

Don't spend the jack yet.

I agree. $80 will go a long way towards the parts you'll need to fix it yourself.

[coffee_brake]

Kindly and respectfully, throwing the parts cannon at this bike is not the way to find the problem. It's a lot easier to get online and start buying parts than it is to get out there with a manual and methodically get your hands dirty, one system at a time.

If you haven't even tried to turn the engine with a wrench, you don't know if the pistons are stuck. Honda is legendary for quality, they may very well be OK. For $80 the bike shop is going to fine ONE problem that would keep the bike form running, like dirty carbs, and tell you that's the problem.

The path between your Honda and knowing what it needs is not twisty-turny. It's simple but time-intensive. First you need to turn the crankshaft with a wrench, it's easy. If it's stuck, you get to do a top end rebuild. If it's not, then you're off to fuel/spark/air. Simple as that.
Don't let it overwhelm you. For what you paid, you have a great project, an excellent learning tool, and quite possibly very soon, a running motorcycle, if you calmly use your head and logically follow through the steps necessary. Here, dig into this, there's some excellent advice on a bike like yours:

http://www.dansmc.com/mc_repaircourse.htm

[83cb650]

wow i always associated engine rebuilding with lots of experience needed, but i guess if i just go slow read the manual and not rush it i should be able to pull it off. thanks coffee for the website really helped i guess the hard part is just getting the engine out, i will start a post and take pictures as i go along, ill try turning the crank by hand like coffee said and that should tell me alot about the problem im also going to do a compression test, but i guess i wont know much till tear it down, thanks for giving me some confidence to do this instead of paying 80$ for diagnostic that could go towards parts. will start a new post once i get engine out so be on the look out thanks to everyone for the help.

[Munkey]

You should be able to rebuild the top end with the engine in the frame.

[coffee_brake]

First turn the engine! All that means is, get a wrench and turn the big bolt on the side of the motor to cause the pistons to move up and down, to see if they are stuck or not. The manual will tell you how, if it doesn't then ask us, there are enough 650 owners here to walk you through it.

Don't even worry about compression or fuel or spark or God forbid letting some shop say they can find the problem for $80 or anything else right now. First, put some oil in each spark plug hole, and try to turn that engine.

[Brittles]

Yeah, don't give your money to the shop unless you've got deep pockets.

Here's a good example: I bought an '85 700s in the spring. Owner had taken it to the shop because it would cut out when the clutch lever was released. Shop gave him a written estimate of $1,500 to rebuild the clutch master cylinder, clutch slave cylinder, new front tire, and fork seals.......he decided to unload it instead. Turns out the clutch is ok........it's a carb problem.

[flynavyj]

Alright, first step i'd advise is get the manual! Check Ebay, Amazon, or dealerships/autoparts stores, etc....It's going to take you a long way.

You won't be able to do a compression check if the engine won't turn over, so cool your horses son. :) First things first, find out if the engine is seized. Have you purchased some WD-40 and Marvel Mystery Oil? You can nab both at an autoparts store, they're cheap, and you'll be able to use them time and time again for other projects around the garage. Like mentioned already, get some compressed air to clean around the tops of the sparkplugs before you remove them, if there's nothing wrong w/ your engine internals, and a couple pebbles fall in there, you might be dealing with a ton of scratches along your cylinder walls, creating compression leaks and blowby, so clean out around the plugs. After that's don, pull out the spark plugs so you'll easily be able to turn the engine. I'd recommend putting in that WD40 and or mystery oil first, and letting it penetrate for a while. If the rings are actually stuck to the cylinder walls, you'll want to give the oil time to work it's way into the cross hatching on the walls and down around the rings, allowing it to free up the corrosion thats holding your pistons in place....Once you get the engine moving, it'll also help lubricate those cylinder walls for those first couple of rotations which your engine hasn't had in a while. Like someone above said, you won't have to pull the engine to do a top rebuild, which is why it's much more simple than doing a complete engine overhaul. You'll essentially be removing everything in the way (carbs, coils, fuel lines, etc) along with the cam cover, cylinder head, and cylinders...Luckily motorcycles are put together more like airplane engines than car motors, so getting a piston out of the cylinder doesn't involve getting under the car and disconnecting the connecting rods, instead, you'll be able to access the piston and piston pin from the top of the engine...Take your time, and the manual and this board should guide you through it!!! and have you  in no time!